What makes you think that we haven't already learned about the Qu'Ran and see much reason to ridicule it?

Much of the so-called scientific concepts in it had already existed for thousands of years before Islam was made up. Even the idea of the atom. Remember Ancient Greece and Egypt? The Qu'Ran is no more proof of god than the Christian bible is. All it is is speculation of what Man thinks their god is. Or more likely creating their god in their own image. Christianity had learned the hard way that they can't use science to prove their beliefs.

Finally. I only have to respect your right to belief whatever you want. I don't have to respect the belief itself. Freedom of belief was never freedom of conduct of belief. If I were in a strictly Islamic nation I wouldn't get the same freedom of belief, that is unless I pay the Jizya.

And before you say it I'm not being a racists (You are if you call me this because Muslims are of all races) and I'm not being a bigot either since I'm not speaking out of ignorance either.

BTW, here is a quote you should take to heart.

"Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence."

drnaveed, Jazak Allah Kol Khair.

sjc001, You are right in saying that the proofs of Quran already in the bible which we Muslims "believe" that it is from the same source. However, if you go deeper into the concept you will find for example that in some of history the cherch was buring people saying that the Earth is spherical. on the other hand if you also want to dig deeper, the phases of human construction until the day of birth is discriped in great details in Quran while it was NOT known until few decades, and the list goes on.

"Truth is their for the one who seeks it"

Also. Haroon Yahya is a creationist. That is not real science to begin with. Its religious belief only.

Still not proof of your god. People assume that the peoples of these times were stupid and had no real concept of science. They even believe that the pyramids were made by aliens. Ancient Egypt had a very high culture thousands of years before Islam. We base much of our science on what was discovered during the times of Ancient Greece as well. There was the Great Library of Alexandria as well. You are confusing theories and later confirmation of theories. Its ironic that you try to misuse science in this manner when Mohammad himself couldn't even read nor write a word.

BTW, every sailor for millennium knew that the Earth wasn't flat.

Yes, truth is there for those who seek it, but it remains truth no matter the belief because of the evidence. Science is not a belief system, it is a method.

If the Qu'Ran is truth of god than why are there more than one sect of Islam? And don't say that the others are false. That is lame. Your very disagreement is proof that it isn't truth.

I almost forgot. Even in the New World the ancient peoples of Central America had the concept of zero as well.

Another thing I almost forgot to mention. A lot of the knowledge had been "misplaced" during the Dark Ages and much of today's is sort of a rediscovering of it as well. If it weren't for these Dark Ages we would be centuries ahead of where we are now.

Myths of Islam: How Many Do You Buy Into?

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1229

sjc001,
from your words, it's clear you haven't learn about Quran. OK, ancient people and dark ages had found some concepts of science, but what about the other zillion of it. And have you learn how much Quran explained and gather science information? Did you know Quran is 80% sciencetificly proven, which is mean most scientificly proven Holy Books? And if you want to proof Quran by Science, Islam open the door wide open.w
And for me there is no such thing as freedom. Even America need rules to mantain freedom. Everything in this world has restriction and limitation.
And little explaination why there's so many sects in Islam, it's very natural. Because people born with different mind and understandment. Even our Prohet already explain that There will be many community grown, but He also explain how to face this conditon. The answer is Quran, the only guidance.
And about link given by blue lighting, the explanation is so shallow, without understandment and knowledge about Islam.

If you guys interested about Quran and Science, i recommend you to read books and article from Dr Zakir Naik. He also have amazing knowledge about other religion and its holy books. He also the speaker on North America Open Debate of Alquran and Bible in the view of Science.

Cheers

Samples of Quranic Contradictions, Inconsistencies and Errors.
Author: Syed Kamran Miraza

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=12#1


Debates:

Dr Zakir Naik vs Ali Sina and more...

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&catid=&topic=17

All religion is SHIT. If you need proof, just look at the initial post. We aren't allowed to make mirrors.

Fuck GOD, Fuck Islam, and FUCK Rapidshare.

So...God has a printing facility called "BookGlobal"
I'm wondering how it was delivered...it must have been quite a "Hot Delivery" from "Out There"
It didnt burn up in the atmosphere.....hm...i'm stumped...anyone know ?
Who in the world would belive a stunt like that?
Even funnier is that people FOLLOW "Instructions" from a "Book" !!!!

Great Post :)

Just the other day i thought it was nice not to see anymore propaganda about religions in this forum... and yet no... another asshole is coming to town with the same intentions to propagate his belief. This is NOT a religious forum dude!!!

If there is one thing that I've learned about ALL creationists is that they aren't above twisting the facts to match their religious beliefs. This is easy for them because the vast majority of their audience are those who already buy into their religious beliefs and have very little understanding of what science actually is and how it really works. Creationists are intellectually dishonest. This is one good reason why there is peer review in the scientific community to weed out these crackpots. You are being lied to.

Before Islam was made up the Middle-East had been a place of much learning and had gathered knowledge from around the world of the time. Yes, many scientific concepts were known then, but they had put them in the context that they had understood which was religious in nature. This still doesn't mean that they got them from any god either. The more we learn of science the less we need of religion to aid us in understanding the universe around us.

I've seen many of the so-called "science" examples in the Qu'Ran and to say that they are reaching is an understatment. The Qu'Ran is written in such a way as to allow its readers to give it any meaning that they want. This is yet another example of why there is more than one sect of Islam as well. How can you say that my interpretation is incorrect when even Islamic scholars can't agree on any one meaning themselves?

The Jews have tried for 6000 years to prove the existence of their god, the Christians 2000 years, and now the Muslims for around 1400 years and all have failed and are even killing each other over this. That in and of itself deserves ridicule for the total waste of lives involved.

I have to say that your original statement on the Quran is rather arrogant. There are other books that state many of the same things that you or other Moslems, claim are unique to the Quran.

It seems rather sad that the Quran, which is supposed to be "the sole guide for humanity" cannot keep your fellow believers from killing themselves. And if it is indeed "the sole guide for humanity" what does that say about the Traditions? The Sayings of Muhammad? Perhaps if the world of Islam, and indeed the world of all religions were to return to their roots, to look solely upon the original Books, and forget all the mamade crap that gets foisted upon religions, then maybe this world would be abetter place and people would see the truth in Islam. But right now all most of the world sees is the fanatical bigots who bloww themselves and others up in the name of Islam. It was the followers of Muhammad who burned teh great library of Alexandria, and it was Muhammad who wept when he was told of it. I reckon he must be weeping now.

To those of you who say that Creationism is wrong, that onlyy science is right, you forget that as drnaveed states, many scientific principles were first stated in the Quran, and indeed other religious books. The difference between the two is that religion outlines the basic principles and science fills in the details. They are both aspects of the same truth. The problem is that the religious books to which we refer were written or revealed, hundreds of years ago when people couldn't understand many of the same concepts we take for granted today. And so they were written in terms of allegories and the like.

Peace be upon us all.

Oh and sjc001, science has been trying to find a rational basis for life on earth, a proof of the non-existence of God. So far they too have failed. I mean look at it - they can't explain how galaxieds hang together so they invent something called Dark Energy and Dark Matter (which makes up what is it 80%+ of the universe?) which they can't see, can't measure, cant prove. I'd call that a matter of Faith just as much as a belief in God.

Oh and sjc001, science has been trying to find a rational basis for life on earth, a proof of the non-existence of God. So far they too have failed. I mean look at it - they can't explain how galaxies hang together so they invent something called Dark Energy and Dark Matter (which makes up what is it 80%+ of the universe?) which they can't see, can't measure, cant prove. I'd call that a matter of Faith just as much as a belief in God.

Hey guys, stay calm. sjc001 has right. Few things. If there is God, He should have humor. Fanatism and dogmatism has no humor at all. Second, freedom should be a basic principle. Freedom from fear, starvation etc. Third, if there is God, then Truth is part of his nature. So it is not possible for someone who believes to God to fight against scientific truths, or to fight against someone who struggles to discover truth, even if he doubts for the existence of God.
If anybody's God doesn't respect these 3 principles, he isn't a God to my mind but only a human construction.
Also something about science. Sjc001 has also right on these subject. Science is only a method. Not a faith. If some scientists are dogmatic on their positions, the are against real science. But form the opposite side, you can't sell religious words as scientific. Please...
About restrictions and laws. Of course there should be laws. Laws that are supporting Health on every level. Laws that are protecting innocence, childhood, freedom of speech, the weak. Laws that are protecting us from fear and terror without making us more slaves on a bigger authority.
I'd like also to add another principle that is very important. Justice. I suppose if there is God, He cares more to see people working for this principle than prooving his existence. If there is God, he is more offended by actions against these principles than the lack of faith. Please think about that.

No, Plug199. Creationism is not science at all since it can't be tested to see if it is true or false. It is religion only.
Science offers real answers to questions about the universe around us. All religion offers is the non-answer of "GODDIDIT!!!". BTW, evolution is not about the origin of the universe nor even of life, but of the origin of species. Abiogensis is about the origin of life. Evolution is testable and it has literally mountains worth of verifible evidence that shows that it is true. Creationism has nothing but belief.

You have it wrong, they already know what is holding the universe together, its called gravity, em, weak and strong force. They are using dark matter to help explain the so-called "missing mass" of the universe. Religious faith has nothing to do with it since religious faith is blind and will ignore anything that contradicts it. Creationists when confronted with contradictory evidence will ignore it and keep their belief while a scientist will throw out the old theory and adapt to the new evidence. As I had said before. The more we learn from science the less we need of religion to aid us in learning about the universe around us. In other words religion is very limited in its structure to seek real truth, while science is far more adaptive to the real universe.

P.S.

If scientists, of the distant past, used the context of religion it was mainly because they had no choice in the matter. It was heresy to question the religious belief of the day and heresy meant death. Now scientists can explore their theories without fear, and least in the Westernized parts of the world.

Also, as to what is happening with Islam now is that it is in its own Dark Age.

One more thing. Here is an interesting little fact that creationists will never admit to. The theory of Evolution doesn't necessarily exclude the existence of a god, for the reasons I had listed above. So all of their objections to it are totally unfounded. Even Darwin himself said;

"I see no good reasons why the views given in this volume should shock the religious sensibilities of anyone." -- Charles Darwin, The Origin Of Species, 1869.

Also, their so-called idea of "intelligent design" is meaningless as well since even design is an evolutionary process.

Those who try to misuse science in order to prove their religious beliefs are highly immoral.

This sort of post ALWAYS brings about this sort of debate. sjc001, you are bigoted (look it up ... you are QUITE intolerant of others' beliefs) in your views. However, while i DO try my best to remain open minded about other people and their views ... Islam has failed to produce a measurable denouncement of terror used in the name of it's faith. That, in my mind, negates it's claim as a "religion of peace."

I'm far from being a bigot as you seem to want me to be. It is not bigotry to be against those who are themselves are intolerant and bigoted to an extreme. If they weren't so intolerant I wouldn't have a problem with them. Labeling those who disagree with a belief system bigots is a just a way to dismiss them out of hand. I'm not basing my opinion of them on ignorance. Remember, it is important to have an open mind, but not so open that one's brain falls out.

Goooup has right about his statement "...Islam has failed to produce a measurable denouncement of terror used in the name of it's faith. That, in my mind, negates it's claim as a "religion of peace.". But if we want all of us to be right, we have to mention the western terrorism against Islam. When Europe was on its dark age, on Islam there were some voices very progressive even to this time.Think about Ibn el Arabi, Jelaledin Rumi, Ibn Sina, Al Mamun, Al Kindi etc. We don't know a lot of things about Islam, so we shouldn't judge it because of some fanatics. The subject is if Islam can digest these fanatics and return to the world of tolerance, the world of these wise men i mentioned before.

"We send down (stage by stage) in the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss."
The Israelites,82

Islam at its heart of a belief in dominance of the world by any means necessary. Its not that difficult to understand. As I had said before, Islam is in its own Dark Age now.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5289081445493804871&q=yasir+qadhi&hl=en

http://its-later-than-you-think.blogspot.com/2007/04/infidels-reply-to-koran.html

The Israelis aren't too innocent in this either....

QURAN is a false book!
The HOLY BIBle is the plain truth and Jesus Christ the Word of God who incarnated to offer his body for the sins of every human being. He prooved who He was. So many miracles and prophecies were fulfilled and still are fulfilling the Bible. What does Qu'Ran predicted? NOTHING! That's why its a zero additionaly.
Everyone can regognize the false books and false prophets from their teachings and their behaviour. What is Islam? To walloping their wives and kill the innocent people? So QURAN is BULLSITS and nothing gives to humanity except one thing: hate !!
You all the moslems of this world, you must examine your scriptures and ask to get proof that your "god" really exists. Otherwise read the Bible and examine the life of Jesus, His crucifiction to die first and His glorious ressurection to show to every human being what is the new body who will receive everyone who will believe in Him. Jesus = Love! He did it because of love to humans! Mohhamad it was just a poor man, a so sinful and so evil man, full of crimes, wars, money and of course... MANY, TOO MANY WOMEN !!!
Moslems, you are mistaken and your teachers have blinded your eyes. You see nothing and you receive nothing of course because you were born in a moslem country and you've been teached to believe in a false god with a false prophet and a false book. You never examined to search if all these are thuth. You opened your mouth and you swallowed the deception!! It's a shame for you to behave like this way saying to the others that you have a real "god" from whom you have never got anything personally like a healing etc...! Conclusion is that: QURAN is b---shits!!!

Yes sjc001, Islam is in its own Dark Age, in contradiction with our western civilization that is ok. Death penalty on USA, Guadanamo, exporting poverty to Africa etc. Come on man. Islam with its fanatics is like a sitting duck. An easy target. The problem with Quran is the same with every religion book. Everybody translates it any way he likes. @Andrex, a small question. Have you ever read Quran or something from Ibn el Arabi, Jelaledin Rumi, Ibn Sina, Al Mamun ? If you had, may be your opinion about Islam could be a little bit different. The same about you my friend sjc001. I like your position generally speaking, but fanatic Islam is one part of the total problem. The rest is our western type "philosophy" about power, money, "democracy". Please keep your mind and your expression balanced. There is this necessity of conflict with the dark side of Islam, but not only with that. Try not to give an alibi to fanatic muslims. Respect the progressive Islam and its civilized people.
@Andrex you are speaking about Holy Bible and Jesus Christ and on the second paragraph you are attacking with expressions like "QURAN is b---shits","its a zero additionaly"," believe in a false god " etc. I suppose you should go back to a church and spent 2 minutes thinking about these words of hate. It looks to me that you are the same with the fanatic muslims, may be worse because your religion is a religion of love and your attitude doesn't look like that. Sorry for my hard language but i can't see the difference your are fighting for.
I like all these religious contradictions because they are proving one thing. People don't really believe to their God as they declare they are doing, but deeply on their hearts they want to attack and dominate others. Real faith to something, truth name it or God doesn't matter, is not the problem. Insincere faith is the problem...

@cosman
My friend, I was so nervous seeing the last motnhs so many books about Qur'an, Mohammad the (false)prophet etc...

I regret to say that my expressions were not the proper ones, and please forgive me anybody here is reading these comments. I made a mistake. It was not into my purposes this attitude of myself.

But, I Do not really can't get into their mind (the moslems) of how they do believe in something without examining if this is real, truth and of course to ask for proofs from a living God. If Allah is a living god as they say, then tell all of them to ask signs or better to ask Allah if he is alive, to fulfill their signs which the individual only knows and place as a challenge to his Allah. Otherwise, there is no meaning for this dark propaganda of their false religion to spread it around with a false book, the Qur'an. I'm telling them this also because myself even that I was born in a christian country and I have been teached constantly the Bible, when I was aged at my 23s, I started looking further; who is really God and what the religions are saying about this. My first impression starting reading some verses from the Qur'an it was that it is absolutely a false teaching. It was obvious that it was a social way of living in a name of a god. Everybody with an open mind can see this fact. And this is what I said to moslems again and again:
YOU BELIEVED IN SOMETHING that your parents teached you and because you have been born in a country which believes in Qur'an as the center of their life in political, religion and social activity. HAVE A LOOK also and ask deeply in your heart for signs to be given unto you in the name of Jesus Christ the Lord. Then come and we will talk again...

YOU ALL MOSLEMS, MUST understand also that someone had to die for all man kind, a person who never sinned before, in order to be accepted this sacrifice on to the heavens from the Father God. And this person is Jesus Christ who prooved who was with incredible miracles and callings that He is the Lamp of God! He had to die in Jerusalem for all mankind. He called all people to come to Him because He said that He is the light, the Truth and the Life. He created the man (John 1:1)and He proved this because of the healings and the resurrwections of dead people He has done. Today is resurrected and alive of course, and He waits everybody who will ask upon His name, to come and get the dinner with him/her. That's why the new-born christians died in the Roman arenas; because Jesus was in presence with them and His Holy Spirit. In the ages that passed over from that period, the humanity gave Islam and many infidels in christianity, believing in nothing. Today is worst the situation of course since the people who claim that they are christians, they aren't acyually because of their attitude which is not christian most of the times. But this is not to say that we, the real christians, will not fight the misunderstandings and false teachings, false-books, false-prophets and pseudo-gods of this world. And we do this, because of Love. To show to the others what is the plain truth and get eternal life in the name of Jesus Christ the Lord!

"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."
The Cow, 6

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."
The Cow, 62

"And they say: Allah has taken to himself a son. Glory be to Him; rather, whatever is in the heavens and the earth is His; all are obedient to Him.

Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, Be, so there it is.

And those who have no knowledge say: Why does not Allah speak to us or a sign come to us? Even thus said those before them, the like of what they say; their hearts are all alike. Indeed We have made the communications clear for a people who are sure.

Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and as a warner, and you shall not be called upon to answer for the companions of the flaming fire.

And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper."
The Cow, 116-120

Comparing Christianity & Islam
===============================

Two unsettling facts dominate the relations between Christianity and Islam:
1. Dialogue is almost nonexistent. Islam resists ecumenical dialogue more than any other religion. To "proselytize" in any way in a Muslim country is to go to prison.
2. Islam once nearly conquered the world, in the early Middle Ages when its empire stretched from Spain to Indonesia, and it looks as if it could do so again. Islamic growth rates in Africa and even America are phenomenal.
In other words, Islam has the world's lowest rate of being converted and one of the world's highest rates of converting.
What accounts for this success? What makes Islam such an attractive creed?
In a word: simplicity. Islam reflects the stark simplicity of the Arabian desert where it was born. A Muslim knows exactly where he stands. To a world more and more confused, Islam comes with a sword that cuts through the Gordian Knot of modern malaise in a single stroke.
That stroke, the striking simplicity of Islam's creed, is summed up in the palindrome (i.e., it reads the same backward as forward) which shatters the silence daily from every mosque and minaret: la illaha illa Allah! "There is no God but Allah!"
Allah, of course, is the same God Jews and Christians worship. Islam is not only a Western, monotheistic religion rather than an Oriental, pantheistic religion, but explicitly bases itself on the historical revelation of the God of the Jews, tracing itself to Ishmael, Isaac's brother, to whom God also promised special blessings according to Genesis. Isaac and Ishmael, Jews and Muslims, have been engaged in sibling rivalry ever since.
The older name that "infidels" gave this religion, "Mohammedanism," is inaccurate, for neither Mohammed nor any of his followers ever claimed Mohammed was anything more than a human prophet. "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet," is the complete Muslim creed.
The code is almost as simple as the creed. The "Five Pillars of Islam" define the duties of every Muslim. They include a pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime, if possible, to commemorate Islam's beginning in 622 A.D. with the "Hegira;" Mohammed's flight from Mecca; fasting; almsgiving; ritual prayer five times a day; and professing the creed, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."
In one sense Islam is a simplification of Christianity as Buddhism is a simplification of Hinduism. But in another sense Islam adds to Christianity, for where Jews have only our "Old Testament" Scriptures and Christians add the New Testament, Muslims also add the Quran. They accept the claims of the Jewish prophets to be sent by God. They believe Jesus deepened this revelation and that Mohammed completed it. Mohammed is "the seal of the prophets." He tells you how to live Jesus' ethic (Jesus is seen only as a man, an ethical teacher).
Actually, Islam neither merely simplifies Christianity nor merely adds to it, but reinterprets it - somewhat as Christianity does to Judaism. As the Christian interpretation of the Old Testament is not the same as the Jewish one, the Muslim interpretation of the New Testament is not the same as the Christian one; the Quran authoritatively interprets the New Testament as the New interprets the Old.
The Quran itself is the only miracle Mohammed claimed - though perhaps equally miraculous is the fact that Mohammed's wife became his first convert. An illiterate peasant, Mohammed received the Quran by word-for-word dictation from Allah, according to the faith of Islam. When Muslims read the Quran, they become ecstatic with admiration. They say no outsider can appreciate it, nor can it be adequately translated out of Arabic. In this sense, Islam is a bit esoteric, though it is a religion of public revelation in a book.
Islam believes in a single, all-just, all-merciful, all-powerful God who created the world and man, insists on obedience to His will, and promises salvation and immortality to believers and obeyers. In all these ways Islam is like Judaism and Christianity (Western) rather than like Hinduism and Buddhism.
(Eastern). Allah is not a Force but a Person; not merely Being or even merely Consciousness but moral Will. From the Will of Allah comes both the existence of the world by creation and the rule over it, over nature and history by Providence and over human free choice by moral law.
The three crucial Christian doctrines Islam denies are the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Resurrection. Like Judaism, Islam denies Christ's claim to divinity. Allah is one; so how could He be three? Jesus is human; so how could He be divine? "It is unfitting for Allah to have a son," wrote Mohammed, apparently interpreting sonship biologically.
The Quran believes in Christ's virgin birth, but not His resurrection; in His prophetic function (teaching) but not His priestly function (salvation) or His kingly function (ruling); in His moral authority but not His supernatural authority. To Muslims, as with Jews, Christ is the stumbling block. The theology of God the Father and the ethics of human living are essentially the same for Jews, Christians and Muslims. What then is missing? Aren't these the two essentials?
No. What's missing is the link between the two, the "missing link," Christ the Mediator between God and man. Mohammed and the Quran are essentially another Moses (lawgiver) and another law. What's missing is grace, salvation, redemption. What's missing is precisely the essential thing.
There are two kinds of Muslims today, just as there were in the Middle Ages: modernists and orthodox, liberals and fundamentalist, Mutazilites (rationalists) and Mutikalimoun. In the 13th century, Thomas Aquinas confronted "Latin Averroism," the European copy of the Muslim philosopher Averroes' way of reconciling the Quran with the philosophy of Aristotle by reducing much of the Quran to myth and exalting Aristotle to the authority of Pure Reason. He taught that a literal interpretation of the Quran (which the vast majority of Muslims hold) is proper for the masses, who cannot rise to the level of philosophical abstraction, but for those who can, Aristotle's arguments must prevail over belief in divine providence, creation of the world and individual immortality (all of which Aristotle denied). But Islam, by and large, has resisted this "demythologizing" rationalism far more completely than Judaism and Christianity have in our day.
We have not yet mentioned the most important thing about Islam: What is it to be a Muslim? How do Muslims exist religiously? Here too, as in Muslim theology and ethics, there is a striking simplicity, summarized in the very title of the religion. "Islam" means both "peace" (etymologically connected with the Hebrew shalom) and "submission," or "surrender"; it is the peace that comes from submission to Allah's will. Muslims would applaud T.S. Eliot's choice of Dante's line:
In His will, our peace" as "the profoundest line in all of human literature.
The famous Muslim "fatalism" ("it is the will of Allah"), like the Calvinistic doctrine of Predestination, makes them work harder, not less hard. Muslims, like Christians, believe in man's free will as well as God's sovereignty. Theirs is not the modern fatalism from below, a scientific determinism, but from above. It is energizing and liberating, not squashing. Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, has produced a rich crop of saints and mystics, especially in the Sufi tradition, which is similar in many ways to the Jewish Hasidic tradition.
Can Muslims be saved? They reject Christ as Savior; yet they seek and love God "Islam" means essentially the "fundamental option" of a whole-hearted "yes" to God. Most Muslims, like most Jews, see Christ only through broken lenses. If God-seeking and God-loving Jews, both before and after Christ's Incarnation, can find God, then surely God-seeking Muslims can too, according to Christ's own promise that "all who seek, find" - whether in this life or the next.
Yet Christ also insists that "no one can come to the Father but by me." Whatever truth Mohammed taught Muslims about God is really present in Christ the Logos, the full revelation of God. If Muslims are saved, they are saved by Christ.
Christians should hope and pray that their separated Islamic brothers and sisters be reunited with our common Father by finding Christ the Way. We cannot stop "proselytizing," for proselytizing means leading our brothers Home.

by Peter Kreeft

Some basic things again. Doesn't matter if you believe to God or not.
1. Suppose you believe on God.
2. Then God's nature has a lot of properties which one of them is Logic.
3. All of your religions are speaking about love, brotherhood etc.
4. All of you are speaking about things are separating you from the "Others".
5. All of you accept that all religions have something good inside them.
6. Humanity now is on big trouble and one reason is that religion authorities are fighting each other.
7. Planet is on ecological crisis and we don't know what is our future ( totaly speaking including all kingdoms ).
8. On this critical moment i suggest all of you to focus on the good side of your "opposites" and all together work for a better future.
9. Those men and women who prefer to hate and attack, please leave the rest of us in peace to work for the common Good. If you want to continue this useless contradiction, you are welcome. But please, please do that without interrupting, annoying and destroying.
10. If you believe in God, don't refuse Him by rejecting Logic.
11. If you care for your salvation, from my point of view you should work with clear Logic a little bit more.
12. And if you believe that all beings are children of the same God, then i am a God's kid, so listen the magic Word :
HUMOR !!!

thank you

ISLAM IS THE TRUE RELIGION .